marți, 23 octombrie 2018

On Mr. Papakitsos & Kenanidis research on Aegean -Sumerian writings relation.

On  Anistoriton Journal, vol. 15 (2016-2017) Essays
Cretan Hieroglyphics
The Ornamental and Ritual Version
of the Cretan Protolinear Script Evangelos C. Papakitsos, Ioannis K. Kenanidis, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312039048_Cretan_Hieroglyphics_The_Ornamental_and_Ritual_Version_of_the_Cretan_Protolinear_Script

Table 1
- AB37; Did not show the shape of equivalent proto-cuneiform sign Ti(l)/gis Ti (could be https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/DIN.jpg ?)

-AB08 a symbol of supreme deity, but sumerian sign for supreme deity An, is much different. https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/AN.jpg .The proto-cuneiform signs wich are close to the minoan symbol of supreme deity are  : 
similar to "A" sign:
 https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/GAL~b.jpg
similar to labrys sign:
https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/GA'AR~b1.jpg 
https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/ZAG~c.jpg

-AB26 did not show sumerian equivalent; proto-sumerian sign RU has different shape and meaning (me : could be close to sumerian Ru: 

The Proto-Sumerian Language Invention Process 

Nov 2, 2014 - Paper analyzing the Sumerian proto-language. ... by John A. Halloran ..... ru5: to send forth shoots, buds, or blossoms; to butt; to gore. sa: n.

https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/RU.jpg ).Not shown nor “ur2 / uru8” in cuneiform

-AB29.Did not show sumerian Pu2 sign, 

Sumerian}

-AB38 did not show the equivalent sumerian sign (me; yes, linguistics sumerian E is building, but you not show the sign shape , see https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/E~b.jpg ; sumerian has an specific sign Ab for "house,temple") https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/AB~a.jpg
Fig.1,2
On the ladder-shape signs: Linear A has the signs "Nu"   "Ya" and Pa3, https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgLyglaWKvhDTTvHfKWW3xwFyWd7216cc-X465XWioZOkDXJzKlKv0PLxQeFusJWOOm0DhLUw9SsXK4i7gn7ZVW0DLZhAFJepzJ9NlJjTZg5Fld6lEx9qchUdwlKmu-KUJqshoBZERgxGnb/s1600/Linear-A-base.jpg  
Proto-cuneiform ladder-signs are :  https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/NAM2.jpg
https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/GA2~a3.jpg

and KU https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/KU~a.jpg 

A Halloran ku: to base, found, build; to lie down 
and K?A/Ga2
https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/GA2~a1.jpg https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/NIGIN.jpg ; ( last twoo  are is in horizontal position!)
 http://www.oocities.org/proto-language/SumerianArchaicSignTable.htm
K?A
The Sumerian sign (Jaritz #458) depicts a 'tubular basket'; a variant, #458a, tapers toward the top; both have top-covers; both presumably and read ga2 (among others). Another recorded reading for it is pisan, which means 'basket' but perhaps also '*shallow tray' https://scontent.ftsr1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/43053145_245861412767736_422670673651957760_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent.ftsr1-2.fna&oh=f901efe7f54c1a6b05a59eba137ffd09&oe=5C5134D6
Fig.3
Sign Linear B 45.You did not find a close shape of pre-cuneiform sign. It has the exact shape in proto-cuneiform sign SA  https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/SZA.jpg (f Sumerian Logograms by John A. Halloran ...... szá-l thread, string ;Sa"to dry up")

On decipherment exemple   am reserved.
Proto-cuneiform signs from https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Additional Palaeographic Evidence for the Relationship of the Aegean Scripts to the Sumerian Pictography Evangelos C. Papakitsos*1 , Ioannis K. Kenanidis2 http://saspjournals.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/SJAHSS-33C734-737.pdf

Fig-1. Sign *8 (“a”)Linear B sign "A"
Of course sign A is related to proto-sumerian signs Ga'ar and Zag, but not direct relation.Direct relation could be with sign  https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/GESZTU~a.jpg. It is much direct to labrys than to the sign "A".

Fig-1. Sign  *57 (“ja”)
Yes. Probably the sign you are reffering to, is https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/GA2~a3.jpg

Sign *4 Fig-2. The sign forms for syllable te.
Yes, the proto-cuneiform equivalent is sign "Se" /Sze https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/SZE~a@t.jpg

Sign *6 Fig-3. The sign forms for syllable na.
? Much close, https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/NUN~b.jpg ?

Sign *10  Fig-4. The sign forms for syllable u.
Your proposal not satisfactory.
No close match
? https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/BA.jpg
 https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/ZATU694~c.jpg  ?

Sign *25 Fig-5. The sign forms for syllable ha.
Not convincing.
? https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/GESZTU~a.jpg
https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/ERIM~a.jpg
https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/BIR3~b.jpg ?
Sign *31 Fig-6. The sign forms for syllable sa.
Not convincing.
Better https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/BAD.jpg

Sign *39 Fig-7. The sign forms for syllable pi.
Not convincing
? https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/GESZTIN~c.jpg
https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/IGI.jpg
https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/USZ~b.jpg  ?

Sign *59 Fig-8. The sign forms for syllable ta.
What proto-cuneiform sign is?
? https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/MA2.jpg ?
This is the sign : https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/ZATU625.jpg

Sign *66 Fig-9. The sign forms for syllable tə (“ta2”).

Think no, better:
https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/BIR~b.jpg
https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/KAR2~b.jpg

Sign *73 Fig-10. The sign forms for syllable mi.
Did not show sumerian sign.
It is: https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/SZU.jpg
Maybe better https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/TAK4~a@n.jpg

Sign *74 Fig-11. The sign forms for syllable ze

? https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/DA~c.jpg
 https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/TAG~a1@t.jpg ?

Sign *77 Fig-12. The sign forms for syllable ca/ka.
Sumerian sign for sheep.yes, http://www.newsnfo.co.uk/images%202/sumerian%20and%20cuneiform%20writing%20sheep%20referance.jpg , but the name of the sign is UDU: https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/UDU~b.jpg
https://static.cambridge.org/resource/id/urn:cambridge.org:id:binary:17706:20160804090558862-0668:03648fig5_9.png?pub-status=live

Sign *80 Fig-13. The sign forms for syllable ma
No coments. Note that there was another proto-cuneiform sign close to the  AMAR/calf shape, for "...goat"

MAH 15887: Animal Husbandry and Animal Paleography

Antoine Cavigneaux
 / Emmert Clevenstine https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUBh5MTthTsPc13bYgyFRpHt6i5T_47HFjBJFzbRjcyEQ3RkiJ




marți, 25 septembrie 2018

Tartaria tablets, riddle,puzzle,rebus, bad joke ?

rebus : a representation of words or syllables by pictures of objects or by symbols whose names resemble the intended words or syllables in soundalso : a riddle made up of such pictures or symbols

If thinking now-days, one could suppose that the tablet's writer intentionally wanted to make fool of all of us, his/or her folowers, wich is totally excluded.Radher was kind of schollar wich wanted to show/teach somebody writing evolution and basic principles.
No one with sound mind ( I mean the writer) could foresee that thousends years after, hundred of scientists are seeing the tablets as an extremely weird, extraterestrial-like items.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%83rt%C4%83ria_tablets  :

"The meaning (if any) of the symbols is unknown, and their nature has been the subject of much debate. Scholars who conclude that the inscribed symbols are writing base their assessment on a few assumptions which are not universally endorsed. First, the existence of similar signs on other artifacts of the Danube civilization suggest that there was an inventory of standard shapes used by scribes. Second, the symbols are highly standardized and have a rectilinear shape comparable to that manifested by archaic writing systems. Third, the information communicated by each character was specific, with an unequivocal meaning. Finally, the inscriptions are sequenced in rows, whether horizontal, vertical or circular. If they do comprise a script, it is not known what kind of writing system they represent. Some archaeologists who support the idea that they do represent writing, notably Marija Gimbutas, have proposed that they are fragments of a system dubbed the Old European Script."


Even if many of them are claiming (without proof) that they are carring some form of writing, only a few made rather cissy /milquetoast/ sissy attempts.One must discerne between Vinca (symbol systems) and Tartaria tablets (sign/writing system).


From Apprehending the semiotics of global typography: A Systemic Functional Grammar approach of Japanese and Latin typefaces file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/bu-dc33-pue-full.pdf

"However, the authenticity of the Vinča tablets as part of the 6,500 years old civilization is debated amongst scholars (Hood, 1967), for some think they might have been re-written centuries after the end of the civilization. However clever, the Vinča system is considered a symbol system, not a sign system, and therefore not a writing one. “A ‘symbol’ is a graphic mark that stands for something else, while a ‘sign’ is a conventional component of a writing system (Fischer, 2003)."

by DG Zanotti - ‎1983 
EUROPEAN COPPER AGE. Since their ... See also S. Hood, "The Tartaria Tablets," Scientific American .... 3300 and 3000 B.C.,'8 or contemporary with the Uruk.

J. P. Mallory, ‎Douglas Q. Adams - 1997 - ‎Foreign Language Study
[E.C.P] TARTARIA TABLETS A Neolithic settlement in Romania, Tartaria ... that the tablets derived from a pit that was initially dug from a higher level, i.e., the ...


Sarunas Milisauskas - 2011 - ‎Social Science
Tartaria is a low mound (250 × 100 meters), the lowest levels of which contain ... the pit is not Vinˇca, but intrudes into the Vinˇca level from later and higher levels. The tablets were found in trench G. Zanotti (1983:212) has suggested that they ...

I will show you in a few steps .having the round tablet as example (I stressed for many years before)that has true writing on it.
The problem remain only what specific people and writing is involved.
I will show you how the upper half contain true writing using old greek and latin languages.
More than this, I will show you how the right side could contain in more than 3 forms the name of god.
=================================================================
To speed up those steps, fast about left side:
Letters HP or HD
In fact archaic eta=HETA wich in early hreek whas pronounced as consonant H, ionians first renounced in favor of vocalic E (same cretans).

From http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Eteocretan/archaic_alpha.html
  1. ḥēt eta whose sound was /ħ/ (voiceless pharyngeal fricative). Speakers of western Greek and other dialects, which retained the ancient Greek /h/, used this letter for their /h/, calling it "hēta". But those dialects, such as most of the Ionian dialects and Cretan Doric, that "dropped their aitches" simply called it "ēta"and used it from the start to denote the long low-mid vowel /ɛː/. This was always the usage in the archaic Cretan alphabets.

In West Mediteranean areas continued as nowdays H.
The reading could be, Heros/gr. Hero,Ero/lat. :"Lord"

Latin Alternative forms herus Etymology From Proto-Italic *eros (“master”), from Proto-Indo-European *h₁esh₂ós (“master”). Cognate with Hittite 𒅖𒄩𒀀𒀸 (“master”). A connexion with heres (“heir”) and hirudo (“leech”) has also been proposed by Charlton Lewis and Charles Short, making its stem instead from Proto-Indo-European *ǵʰeh₁ro- (“derelict”). Cognates would include Ancient Greek χήρα (khḗra, “widow”), हरति (harati, “to seize”) and हरण (haraṇa, “hand”) Pronunciation (Classical) IPA(key): /ˈe.rus/, [ˈɛ.rʊs] Noun Edit erus m (genitive erī); second declension master of the house or family Inflection Edit Second declension. Case Singular Plural nominative erus erī genitive erī erōrum dative erō erīs accusative erum erōs ablative erō erīs vocative ere erī Synonyms Edit dominus
===================================================================
In the right side,
sign +++++ wich we are lefting aside for a while, even if in eteocretan was used alternate as for Zai or Semk.

From http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Eteocretan/archaic_alpha.html :


  1. semk semk whose sound was /s/. It is found in some of the archaic alphabets as an alternative way of writing zeta. It was later used in eastern Ionian alphabets to denote /ks/, but this usage is not attested in any of the archaic alphabets nor known in the alphabets of the western Greeks. The letter occurs in the Praisos #1 inscription and is discussed in the next two sections below.



  • zai (zeta):the form zeta is found in the Greek inscriptions at Dreros, but does not occur in any of the extant Eteocretan texts. The form semk is found in some archaic local scripts to spell Greek ζ; this is possibly the case with Praisos #1 inscription.



zai (zeta): the sound denoted by this symbol seems to have varied in different Greek dialects. Some instances of classical ζ derive from earlier /sd/, e.g. ἵζω (hizo) "I seat" ← *si-sd-ō (cf. Latin: sīdō). The majority of cases, however, derive from a earlier */dj/, */gj/ suggesting that sound denoted by 'z' in transcriptions of Mycenaean Linear B was /dj/ or an affricate such as [ʤ] or [ʣ]. It would seem, however, that in the archaic and classical periods, by a process of assimilation or metathesis, the sound varied in the dialects between [dd], [zd] and [zz] with the latter becoming the norm by the Hellenistic period and giving way eventually to the modern Greek [z].

In Cretan Greek [dd] was the norm and the spelling δδ is also found. But there appears to have been a tendency in Crete to devoice this combination as ττ is also found for standard Greek ζ; indeed, we also occassionally find actual /tt/ spelled ζ. 
For the above, see: M. Lejeune, Phonétique historique du Mycénien et du Grec ancien, Paris, 1972, pp112 sqq.; W.S. Allen, Vox Graeca, Cambridge UK, 1968, pp. 53 sqq.; C.D. Buck, The Greek Dialects, Chicago, 1955, p. 71 sq., and pp. 313 sqq. However, the letterzeta does not occur in any of the extant Eteocretan texts, so it may not directly concern us here, unless....

  • semk: If semk is not a local variant of zeta, then it must denote some Eteocretan sibilant not found in contemporary Greek (see 'Phonemic Values of Archaic Letters' below).
  • As in some other local scripts, it is merely used as a variant of zeta and, therefore, presumably denotes either /dd/ or /tt/.
  • It really is semk and is being used to represent a sibilant not known in contemporary Greek. The clear presence of Ϝσ (ws) on Praisos #3 may indicate that Eteocretan possessed a labialized sibilant [sʷ]].



Sign +++++ wich could be Zu as in cretan "Zou to lako" ("Zeus' cave)

1.So Dze?, Zu/Zou :cretan "Zeus"

But the D D o o/ ? D D o c? sequence can give:

2.cretan DDou as eteocretan sign Z was pronounced geminate D ("DD"). See above.
DDou as Dzou/Zdeu/Zou
3.This phonetic gemination lasted till nowdays in neapolitan,corsican maybe spanish Ddio...........(and in Romania some tens years before proposal to write god close to latin as Ddeu)
so DDoo=Ddou for Zeou,Zou
4.Look at the picture, 1-st from right,

http://imgfrm.index.hu/imgfrm/7/5/4/0/BIG_0001077540.jpg


see an I like inside first D.(probably when cuneus left the surface for I left aditional unintended scratch?)See also how second D has extended vertical bar upward
so Di b o c
dibos pronounced DiVos

Curtius [1] has hinted to the possibility that some present forms of the word Theos could have evolved from the root/concept relating to divos, but he did not provide complete and convincing arguments mainly because he did not consider the Slavic languages as platforms for his interpretation. He quotes the Italian etymologist Ascoli [10] who identified ‘Theos’ with the Sanskrit root div and divja-s ‘heavenly’ and from div-eo-s arrived at dveos and theos:

divos > dibos > qibos > qeios > qeos

3. Genitive: Διος (Dios) in Greek and दिवः (divaḥ) in Sanskrit. The remaining cases are constructed on an alternative root div-. What is immediately evident is that the Greek form lacks the sound v. This is due to the fact that this sound was entirely lost in Greek after about 1000 BC. Where there is v in another language, there will always be a blank in Greek. Before this loss the Greek form must have been Divos.


The Inscription of Dvenos - Jstor
https://www.jstor.org › stable
by RG Kent · 1926 · Cited by 3 · Related articles
The archaic Latin inscription known as the Inscription of Duenos, ..... tion of the Greek qi) e LXarbs aoo e~ot K6Prn, ..... [iurat (=adiurat)] Io(vem) Vei(ovem) Sat(urnum) divos .


Note. (Another form "deivos"is found in Duenos inscription)
That divos was used in greek for "god" and in latin for "gods"  also divus,divo:"god-like"= "divine"

Common Latin titles explained

https://finds.org.uk/romancoins/articles/page/slug/commontitles

DIVVS/DIVO (masculine) DIVA (feminine), Divine, deified. This is indicative that the coin was struck after the death of the named emperor or empress. (DIVVS ...)

SECOND DECLENSION NOUNS http://www.cultus.hk/Latin_vocab/noun1245/divus.html

Latin : divus, div-i m.English : god

SINGULARPLURAL
NOM.divusdivi
GEN.dividivorum
DAT.divodivis
ACC.divumdivos
ABL.divodivis


From https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/divus#Latin 
dīvus (feminine dīva, neuter dīvum); first/second declension
  1. of or belonging to a deity; divine
  2. godlike, godly

Phrygian areyasti - Core

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/15590710.pdf

by A LUBOTSKY 
63): "Bonok the dedicator keeps (his) vow, wherefore (the god) healed her ..... of the OPhr. inscription are unclear, which makes this identification of devos and ...


The common origin of the Gods names Yahweh (Jehovah) and Zeus ...

www.garshin.ru › Linguistics › Comparativistics


Keywords: origin of the god's names, Supreme Gods, Lord of the day, .... Iranian: patat Dywos - god-father Divos;; Armenian: tiw- day;; Ancient Greek: Zeus (Nom.) ...... the ancestor another phratrias Armenians Hayk, the Phrygian god in Lydia ...

Religions and Cults in Pannonia. Exhibiton an Székesfehérvár ... - MEK


mek.oszk.hu/08400/08475/08475.pdf

The only relief of the so-called Thracian Rider-god was found at Sisak. ... deities and of the existence of their sanctuaries sub divo, in a natural environment ..
me: (thracian rider-god Heros,Hero modern rom,"EROu")

B)onos leto datos divos habento .... Here too as in the above two instances "one can remark the opposition between Manium, that, as shown in Paulus exc. Festi, originally meant 'the good ones' and the qualificative (B)onos = Duenos as referred to the deified dead divos).