TARTARIA ROUND TABLET
CRETAN HIEROGLYFIC LINEAR A/B APPROACH
Acnowledgement
I am studing this very tablet from more than 10 years.Soon I was atracted bewitched/enchanted by the apparent close appearance of signs to those of archaic greek. (signs Heta, zeta,etc.)
Despite my effortts, even if I've found most of the signs in
-archaic greek
-cretan hieroglyphics/linear A/B
-carian
-& others, e.g. venetic,iberian etc.
They had not depass in every writings an average percentage of say 80-85% of founded signs.
Exemple:
- For archaic linear A,B,could not explain such early appearance of D-shape signs.Also the bow-arrow sign and >> sign.
- For cretan hierogliphic show an archaic primitive egyptian/anatolian-influenced writing.Not matching of signs/icons placed right-downward quarter.Possible there are comlex, religios ideograms.
- For carian most of the signs were found.Highest average ! 90%. But pitty,not all.Dificulty arouse not cause one is expecting, say cannot find signs, but by cause they were used different signs-shapes-letterss-readings in different ages and places, despite their very greek origin.Not even talk about the carian language wich is partly understoo only be 1-2 men (e.g.Adiego) out of entire world.
- Other European writings as italic-venetic,iberian ond others from Europe had show an phenomenom like frome some phoenician source dispersed out of control of supposed original signs usage.
No one writing system could be matched entirely.
Don’t believe, this happened some-how easyer when using the proto-cuneiform sumerian library of signs.
It seems that sumerians begin to use signs, sumerians allready wrote novels before aegeans passed from cretan hieroglyphic to linear A> linear B.
There are hundred/thousends years when they used writing before Aegean/Europe begun to choose change between signs and use of writing.(3000 BC sumerian proto hierogliphic <visa> 2000-1500 cretan hieroglyphic linear A.).
Despite this difficulty, only for comparison purposes I made all approaches to try to read and to compare the results.
From https://i2.wp.com/cogniarchae.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tablet.jpg?fit=1568%2C1045&ssl=1
From Keith Massey, http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.ro/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh8z6BubluQUi8nrFStzl6C89_TcPQOEXm31xg6K8pyVOkQaRgQSK1ESv2Z5ULd9F2hB5dU-gZHW_1_H3VEtzh7HodLmg9Qkb4BOHT4tQvY8s8gzndKyGLVR3lX_pax-bRF7hTvBu1jWuNK/s320/SE.JPG
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgqkxB3YBXcKFJlTBq8EMF4ndu2iGNRBqPc0xrr_cx8JFkly6-2jCuGNoA_UjyII97z6n3kz8k8TMZiP6Idb7LW1zVD1pVR5Ohu5frCnnE6M7aCI5mm4s9t9_Dx9k68eqGW2LkYPubsLDly/s320/SEgrid.JPG
See the red sign https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PqckmDI84otAMpvldErp8b7QbVku9wiKSt1KHxF0WwusIU9jm-pW4kkQcOUqPyKU2QUiaUY=s85
This shape is conducting me (and not a single opinion)to the idea of kind of portable altar with flames on upper side:
The sign in a way is close to cretan hieroglyphic sign DE, (180deg turned/upside down)
But much close is linear A(also upside-down),sign AB 45
http://www.minoanatlantis.com/pix/Minoan_Linear_A_Sign_Table.jpg
https://linearbknossosmycenae.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/linear-a-scribal-hands-d-series2.jpg?w=640
and LINEAR B "DE"
https://image.slidesharecdn.com/mycenaeans-1229034501455786-1/95/mycenaeans-21-728.jpg?cb=1229006262
On the right,
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IfD0upHP8kOF8_3Z4AsPMMF7eh7v6oWJsVtPaadPZ0kKNNs1TYH1tnulvl_0sNe928_xt0c=s104
Close to linear A, AB 80 (table Linear A, above)
or E,or RI
or E,or RI
See E signs shape, especially that one down-middle-one
https://linearbknossosmycenae.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/vowels.jpg
Or even linear A, “MA” (having included a horizontal ligature?)
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgLyglaWKvhDTTvHfKWW3xwFyWd7216cc-X465XWioZOkDXJzKlKv0PLxQeFusJWOOm0DhLUw9SsXK4i7gn7ZVW0DLZhAFJepzJ9NlJjTZg5Fld6lEx9qchUdwlKmu-KUJqshoBZERgxGnb/s1600/Linear-A-base.jpg
The sign has appearance of a female deity:
Minoan snake goddess figurines - Revolvy
https://www.revolvy.com/.../index.php?s=Minoan%20snake%20goddess%20figurines...
The snake goddess's Minoan name may be related with A-sa-sa-ra, a possible interpretation of inscriptions found in Linear A texts. Although Linear A is not yet deciphered, Palmer relates tentatively the inscription a-sa-sa-ra-me which seems to have accompanied goddesses, with the Hittite išhaššara, which means …
A-SA-SA-RA
Syrio-Hittite Venus 18-1000 BC Central and southwest Anatolia northern Syria
The goddess Astarte is much like the contemporary Venus we see on Cyprus. Large holes apparently for ring decoration (referred to as being "pegged"), palm sized with stubby arms are a common style among other cultures too. The pinched face is found on the stubby armed figurines as well as the pillar shaped statuettes.
http://firstlegend.info/thevenuscult.html http://firstlegend.info/Minoan%20Snakes,%20Archaeology%20Museums,%201600%20Bce,%20.jpg
TANIT
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/cd/76/42/cd7642aa37a14ceb9aec49e7df55905a--stele-carthage.jpg
From https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOwTjXrOXS_bmNcrHpTEPIQHh4aPV2Fnnyckn7b17vjFbVPZzAlw
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/I04rhnTZOtbZCnvUW6OYZ2beiqKhS4Ih_kdaftKlfX7ZpOM5BVqyzAZLtma--UZznJVgafs=s85
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/I04rhnTZOtbZCnvUW6OYZ2beiqKhS4Ih_kdaftKlfX7ZpOM5BVqyzAZLtma--UZznJVgafs=s85
Greek Mycenaean PSI type terracotta female, 1300-230 B.C.
with upraised arms and dark brown decorations; it shows
that the Minoan civilization was much more advanced, but
the very same idea is depicted here.
Please note the consistent raising of the arms,
From DOCUMENTS IN MINOAN LUWIAN, SEMITIC, AND PELASGIAN FRED C. WOUDHUIZEN file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Documents_in_Minoan_Luwian_Semitic_and_P.pdf
"From these data, it may be deduced that the most important deity, with (if we include the abbreviated instances) 17 occurrences in sum, is Asasara, 3 who has been convincingly identified with the Semitic mother-goddess Asherat or Asherah. The most characteristic symbol of this goddess is the double axe, which in writing functions for the expression of the initial vowel of her name, a (E36 or CHIC 042), and as such may be used on its own to refer to her in abbreviation.4 On the south pillar of the pillar crypt in Malia (see Fig. 75), the symbol of Asherah occurs twice in combination with that of a star with either six or eight points. Now, against the backdrop of the identification of the main goddess as Asherah, it stands to reason that we are dealing here with the symbol of the daughter of this mothergoddess, Ashtarte, whose name originates from PIE *h2stḗr- “star”, but we can as yet not be certain of this as we lack an instance of this divine name written out in full. However, this same shortcoming does not affect the symbol of the storm-god in the form of a trident on the north pillar of this same pillar crypt at Malia, because the hieroglyphic inscriptions from the palace of Malia and Quartier Mu at the same site positively allow for the latter’s identification as Luwian Tar˙u(nt). In these texts, namely, the name of Tarkhunt occurs in the form of the goat’s head sign TARKU (E65 or CHIC016) as much as 11 times, and is in frequency outmatched only by that of Asherah referred to in abbreviation by the double axe as much as 12 times (note that in two instances, # 098 and # 112, both deities occur together in the same text). On the other hand, it should be realized that the storm-god may also be referred to by Semitic forms of address like Haddu or Baªal, as it happens to be the case in the text of the discus from Phaistos (# 333), and the altar stone from Malia (# 328) which according to its legend ultimately originates from Skheria (= Hagia Triada) also in the Mesara. In reality, this change from a Luwian to a Semitic form of address for the storm-god may not have been as fundamental for the Minoans as it might seem to us at first sight, as on the A-side of the discus of Phaistos the storm-god is referred to in his Luwian form Tar˙unt, again, by his symbol the trident or bolt of lightning"
with upraised arms and dark brown decorations; it shows
that the Minoan civilization was much more advanced, but
the very same idea is depicted here.
Please note the consistent raising of the arms,
From DOCUMENTS IN MINOAN LUWIAN, SEMITIC, AND PELASGIAN FRED C. WOUDHUIZEN file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Documents_in_Minoan_Luwian_Semitic_and_P.pdf
"From these data, it may be deduced that the most important deity, with (if we include the abbreviated instances) 17 occurrences in sum, is Asasara, 3 who has been convincingly identified with the Semitic mother-goddess Asherat or Asherah. The most characteristic symbol of this goddess is the double axe, which in writing functions for the expression of the initial vowel of her name, a (E36 or CHIC 042), and as such may be used on its own to refer to her in abbreviation.4 On the south pillar of the pillar crypt in Malia (see Fig. 75), the symbol of Asherah occurs twice in combination with that of a star with either six or eight points. Now, against the backdrop of the identification of the main goddess as Asherah, it stands to reason that we are dealing here with the symbol of the daughter of this mothergoddess, Ashtarte, whose name originates from PIE *h2stḗr- “star”, but we can as yet not be certain of this as we lack an instance of this divine name written out in full. However, this same shortcoming does not affect the symbol of the storm-god in the form of a trident on the north pillar of this same pillar crypt at Malia, because the hieroglyphic inscriptions from the palace of Malia and Quartier Mu at the same site positively allow for the latter’s identification as Luwian Tar˙u(nt). In these texts, namely, the name of Tarkhunt occurs in the form of the goat’s head sign TARKU (E65 or CHIC016) as much as 11 times, and is in frequency outmatched only by that of Asherah referred to in abbreviation by the double axe as much as 12 times (note that in two instances, # 098 and # 112, both deities occur together in the same text). On the other hand, it should be realized that the storm-god may also be referred to by Semitic forms of address like Haddu or Baªal, as it happens to be the case in the text of the discus from Phaistos (# 333), and the altar stone from Malia (# 328) which according to its legend ultimately originates from Skheria (= Hagia Triada) also in the Mesara. In reality, this change from a Luwian to a Semitic form of address for the storm-god may not have been as fundamental for the Minoans as it might seem to us at first sight, as on the A-side of the discus of Phaistos the storm-god is referred to in his Luwian form Tar˙unt, again, by his symbol the trident or bolt of lightning"
The right sign is close to linear A, AB 80 or RI
LEFT RIGHT
Hier.DE linA E?
linA AB45 linA AB80
linA DE linA RI
linA MA
Compared vith linear B,
https://crewsproject.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/fig-3-1-linear-b-syllabary.jpg?w=712
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Zd6ABAzyQLh8eJBjTtwc1geoDNZBuz868K0KqY4Og3knPOhxPBZYXf-fBIaUa4KcUm31Gg=s101
http://www.whoosh.org/issue65/graphics/ribaud20.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Zd6ABAzyQLh8eJBjTtwc1geoDNZBuz868K0KqY4Og3knPOhxPBZYXf-fBIaUa4KcUm31Gg=s101
Also,not much difference:Lin.B:
LEFT RIGHT
DE E
Reading: De ; Ri/E ;
Note
The signs seem to be independent icons, not to be read both as a word
( both signs ,DeRI/RiDe EDE DE-MA ?)
EDE:”gr.here,this one,NOW / lat.2-nd imp. “lat.EAT,feed!/Dispatch !”(gr.edo:I eat)
QUADRANT 2
From https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiKKKiCnEvl6Z4zCot6RhZfpSMkbvyPwiyErLWDlnK8uTVArcWf3r1_DdwHAgPptLi5FAf1X46-rHIUSQvKphwmjVs9Vwn01f2Jh6eeTZPyF2h3NIj1y_MGW5s1xwVDsG8tFbPaQCCgcDfG/s1600/NEgrid.JPG
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiKKKiCnEvl6Z4zCot6RhZfpSMkbvyPwiyErLWDlnK8uTVArcWf3r1_DdwHAgPptLi5FAf1X46-rHIUSQvKphwmjVs9Vwn01f2Jh6eeTZPyF2h3NIj1y_MGW5s1xwVDsG8tFbPaQCCgcDfG/s320/NEgrid.JPG
Upper sign,(encircled-one)
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlih20F28zX6wP_DG5SuHyypORTm7NjXCA_O2gGDnjeIyDAyi-cw
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlih20F28zX6wP_DG5SuHyypORTm7NjXCA_O2gGDnjeIyDAyi-cw
Sign +++++
Cretan Te,”wheat”
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/95/30/e5/9530e511673bbc954e8153dd163f8862.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/s9lED6bxOb4Yr1999mbkVHKgky4eWxo839tqw-PZTJ4rCyv2Cka9g6eqnxjJjktVfnjSOw=s85
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/s9lED6bxOb4Yr1999mbkVHKgky4eWxo839tqw-PZTJ4rCyv2Cka9g6eqnxjJjktVfnjSOw=s85
Down, in a row : D D o o (or D D o c ?)
D D :Two months !?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdJZsAep5U4BWZyr3rOwSgtq9jQ-7nVqiU_yy_h9zVPfKdOLRN
https://linearbknossosmycenae.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/space-saving-linear-b-ideograms-and-logograms.jpg?w=640&h=572
https://linearbknossosmycenae.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/mycenaean-linear-b-numeric-system-and-alpha.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cBqsIGfCR8TQ3CEu-7sgQ_I9WEo8NYcAYH6MjMqMM1PHpEclAwyAaGQdEQ2Q0zaMhQy7=s115
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cBqsIGfCR8TQ3CEu-7sgQ_I9WEo8NYcAYH6MjMqMM1PHpEclAwyAaGQdEQ2Q0zaMhQy7=s115
QUADRANT 3
See archaic Heta-like sign No.6 “NU”?
https://linearbknossosmycenae.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/syllabary-like-cretan-pictograms.jpg
Linear A sign “BE”/”PE”
https://cogniarchae.com/2015/10/29/tartaria-tablets-connection-between-vinca-and-proto-linear-b-script/
(but exact shape of linear B sign PA3)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6yko3IttW9YjfE726RY-HAM2CzDvqPn0kOvTsFrQSBNJiVqBGRT2fuohv2kTc2njD8XZd-0=s101
https://crewsproject.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/fig-3-1-linear-b-syllabary.jpg?w=664
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6yko3IttW9YjfE726RY-HAM2CzDvqPn0kOvTsFrQSBNJiVqBGRT2fuohv2kTc2njD8XZd-0=s101
https://crewsproject.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/fig-3-1-linear-b-syllabary.jpg?w=664
Indo-European and the Indo-Europeans - CLAS Users
users.clas.ufl.edu/drjdg/historical/pubs/IE.pdf
*peh2- 'protect; feed' (آHittite:ً pa-ah-sa(pahsa): protect, guards 3sg.Skt. pa-ti 'protects') : *peh2-trom / *peh2-dhlom ... OPULENT (same root [*op-1] as Lat. opera 'works' etc.).
Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/peh₂- - Wiktionary
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/peh₂-
Folowing, the moon-like sign D-shaped
I propose to be read ME-NE ( the MOON )
A TABLE OF SIMILARITIES
https://www.teicrete.gr/daidalika/documents/phaistos_disk/signary.pdf
? (as in me-na. . the moon), or qim (kwi, as in qi-si-pe- e,
https://linearbknossosmycenae.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/minoan-linear-words-mi-mu-of-possible-proto-greek-origin.jpg
https://linearbknossosmycenae.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/minoan-linear-words-mi-mu-of-possible-proto-greek-origin.jpg
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BC%CE%AD%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%82 Proto-Hellenic *ménos, from Proto-Indo-European *ménos (“mind”
I propose to be read ME-NE ( the MOON )
I propose to be read ME-NE ( the MOON )
PeMen,Pa-MeNa, PAMENE/pamini ??
PEMEN >> gr.phemen see https://www.verbix.com/webverbix/go.php?D1=206&T1=%CF%86%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%AF
gr.Phemi> phamen, phaimen
If we have linear B “PA3” then PA-MEN >gr.PHAMEN
φημί • (phēmí) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%86%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%AF
1. I think
2. (of an author) I write
3. (φησί or ἔφη used when quoting, sometimes after another verb of saying) quotations ▼
2. I say yes, agree, affirm, assert
1. (with οὐ) I say no, deny, refuse quotations ▼
2. (φημί or οὕτως φημί as interjection) yes, I would say so
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/peh₂-
Semantic shift from "protector" towards "shepherd, herder" can be seen in many branches, signifying the importance of herding. Unusual is the o-grade root in Greek ποιμήν (poimḗn, “shepherd, herdsman”),
--------------------------------------------
My note
Gr.hed>ed (eat) <visa>Pa(teomai)(eat)
In PIE ed :to bite=to eat used same root ED related also with teeth (edontos)
ed-, edi- - Word Information
wordinfo.info/unit/4532/ip:1/il:E
Latin: edere, "to bite, to eat; eating, eatable; consume" ... Etymology: from Indo-European ed-, "eat" which produced the basic word for "eat" in many European languages. From Greek edein and Latin edere, "to eat". eatable (adjective), more eatable, most eatable. Referring to something that is safe toeat: People have to be ...
Note also:
use of theses - ANU Repository
https://openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/10489/2/02Whole_Lee.pdf
b The Greek words 'hedea'. ('pleasant-things'} and 'hedonai' ('pleasures') can denote,. 61 firstly, things or events external to the agent, secondly,. 62 the agent's bodily sensations, and, thirdly, certain. 61 In Homer, the word 'hedu' seems to function in much the same way as 'gluku'-z'Sweet'), ..
Wich come to kid <=>gr./lat.:hed,hedus= sweet
QUADRANT 4
https://i2.wp.com/cogniarchae.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tablet.jpg?fit=1568%2C1045&ssl=1
Upper signs,left-one:” bow-arrow”
Linear A SI? / TU/ WA ? Linear B,”ZO”?
NO-one match entirely
Next right sign >>
The last,downward it is linear A/B “PA”
WA TiTi
PA
Amazing page!
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