De la 2 ore dupa gasirea lor (pentru ca au fost arse in cuptor) alta datare decat metoda indirecta !? nu se mai poate face vreodata.
Dar pentru metoda indirecta ar trebui sa avem certitudinea ca tablitele au fost in acelasi strat cu oasele. Aceasta certitudine nu o avem.
Nu exista nici-o proba,fotografie sau martor in acest sens!
Arheologii nu sant siguri si nu au o parere unanima nici in privinta stratigrafiei, nici a locurilor exacte unde au fost gasite tablitele, mai exact pozitia relativa fata de pozitia celorlalte artefacte sau a oaselor.
Ba mai mult, conform opiniei unor cercetatori, o parte din artefacte indica alte zone geografice (cea Egeeana: bratara Spondylus, statueta tip "fara fata" si cupa din alabastru), precum perioade si culturi mai tarzii (Ex.Cotofeni, amuleta tip ancora/bucraniu).
In ceea ce privesc semnele toti specialistii mondiali de varf opineaza pentru o varsta teoretica maxim-maximorum , aceea a inceputului scrierii sumeriene (faza proto-cuneiforma 3.200 BC)
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De ce ma intreb daca ar fi posibil sa fi dat un gen de streche in randul savantilor, boala caracterizata sau avand ca efect un gen de orbire partiala, "orbul gainilor" ?
Pentru ca altfel i-mi scapa complet intelegerii, cum macar cativa nu si-au dat seama ca au indicatii pretioase si directe chiar certe chiar in semne. Pentru ca in decursul timpului, CHIAR FORMELE CONCRETE ALE SEMNELOR AU AVUT UN PARCURS, EVOLUTII SI TRANSFORMARI. Semnele, in special doua dintre ele cu forma lor concreta ne ofera indicii de o valoare nepretuita pentru originea in timp dar poate si a locului.Cum ar zice englezul: the very shape of some signs are offering clues of paramount importance="smoking gun".
Nu intru prea in amanunt, va dau doar doua exemple:
- semnul D nu a fost folosit (in pozitie verticala) mai de nimeni in istorie pana la scrierile Egeene si greaca arhaica
- semnul H cu trei bare orizontale a fost folosit pentru prima oara in aria Egeeana si usor mai apoi in scrierile feniciana si veche ebraica.
ASA INCAT ESTE CHIAR POSIBIL SA AVEM SCRIERE ADEVARATA DOAR IN JUMATATEA DE SUS A TABLITEI ROTUNDE; AM PUTEA AVEA LITERE ARHAICE GRECESTI
AR PUTEA FI VORBA DE UN RITUAL DE OFERIRE A UNEI JERTFE, OFRANDE UNEI ZEITATI, (vezi tablita pictografica cu silueta care tine miinile intinse +simbol vegetal+ capra)
RITUAL PRACTICAT DE O POPULATIE CARE PRACTICA AGRICULTURA SI CRESTEREA ANIMALELOR. CHIAR TABLITA ROTUNDA NU PARE A FI FACUTA EXCLUSIV PENTRU SCRIS CI ARE FORMA UNEI PAINITE
http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2016/12/can-you-see-me.html This is small Vinča votive clay bread:
https://www.spurlock.illinois.edu/collections/notable-collections/profiles/mesopotamian-tablet.html
School Text on a Clay DiscBabylonia, modern Iraq2nd millenium BCE1913.14.1741
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http://www.ancientpages.com/2018/02/17/7000-year-old-inscription-undeciphered-vinca-script-one-worlds-earliest-writing-systems-discovered/
7,000-year-old ceramic tile covered with Vinca symbols was discovered in Bulgaria. Credit: Twitter The Vinca symbols carry non-verbal information about calendar and ritual events.
The Vinca culture carved their symbols on wet clay using a sharp object. ===============================================
Semnul D
Mai mult este prezumat decat sa avem dovada concreta ca a fost folosit in Sumer (3.500-3.300 BC) ca masura volumetrica (Denisse Schmandt Besserat)
Doua semne sumeriene seamana doar de la un kilometru cu semnul D: - unul care are o linie paralela in interior, https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/signlists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html semnul Gar
care se citeste "ninda" si semnifica "ratie de cereale ori paiine" apoi semnul pentru cifra 1 "dis", .jpg){kind=small}
(si acelasi dar putin mai mare pentru cifra 60). Insa atentie, doar aparent seamana intrucat ei le executau prin imprimare si nu prin trasare/zgariere.
Semnul D executat prin trasare a mai aparut pentru scriere peste 1000 de ani in Egipt (~2.300 BC?). A mai fost folosit in scrierile Egeene, Linear A si Linear B, dar nu ca semn pentru scris propriu-zis/logograma/silabograma, ci unde se pare ca reprezenta fractiuni de greutati (mina) sau unitate volumetrica (2.000-1500BC).
Mai apoi a reaparut peste un alt interval de timp doar in scrierea arhaica greceasca (800BC) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Semnul H cu 3 bare orizontale
a fost folosit in 2200BC scrierea hieroglifica cretana, apoi in 2000-1500BC in scrierile feniciana, linear A si B si mai apoi incepand cu 1200 BC? in scrierea veche ebraica ,iar in cea arhaica greaca si in cele Anatoliene (dupa800BC).Forma particulara cu barele verticale decalate, asa cum avem pe tablita se regaseste numai in alfabetele fenician si vechi ebraic, dar si in Creta.Evidenta formei semnelor ne impune si conduce la selectia unei PERIOADE IN CARE AU FOST FOLOSITE SIMULTAN ACESTE FORME PARTICULARE DE D SI H ORIUNDE IN LUME. Este adevarat ca teoretic s-ar fi putut intampla in scrierile Egeene, insa prezenta unui semn asemanator cu D in stanga cat si doua asemenea semne in dreapta, complica lucrurile pana la a avea ceva extrem de greu de interpretat ca avand o coerenta, ceva neinteligibil ilizibil. NU POATE FI SCRIS FENICIAN SAU EBRAIC INTRUCAT DESI FORMA ACELUI H SE FOLOSEA EXACT SUB ACEEASI FORMA, IN SCHIMB NU AU FOLOSIT FORMA D PENTRU VRE-O LITERA! ================================================================
"FEREASTRA TEMPORALA" de care vorbesc, ar putea fi mai degraba DUPA 800BC, IN SCRIEREA ARHAICA GREACA (! Si desigur si in CRETA)
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Din pacate semnele(literele) ar putea conduce la mai multe posibile citiri,
CU ATAT MAI MULT CU CAT IN FAZA EPICHORICA (epichoros:"local), INAINTE DE UN GEN DE UNIFICARE/STANDARDIZARE A FOLOSIRII SEMNELOR SPRE EXEMPLU FORMA D REPREZENTA PENTRU UNII DIN ARIA EGEEANA "R" IAR ALTII IL FOLOSEAU PENTRU "D":
- H D Di D o o sau 2. HD Di b o c
Ancient Greek Etymology From Proto-Indo-European *h₁ed–. Cognates include Sanskrit अत्ति (atti), Latin edō, Old Armenian ուտեմ (utem), Hittite 𒂊𒀉𒈪, Old Church Slavonic ꙗсти (jasti), and Old Englishetan (English eat).
Ede - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New ... - Bible Study Toolshttps://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/ede.html . ... already 42, as soon as 1, now 14, soon* 1, this time 2 ...
"eventual ede DeDOU :"da iedul!"
sau pentru 2: HERA/ HEROS ("doamna/stapan,aparator") in stanga si DiBOS,divos Deibos ("ZEI") in dreapta
Nota
Tablita ar fi putut fi scrisa inclusiv de un dorian/albanez (!?), semnificand:
HeRa,Here Su RROC TIMP limita, TERMEN ===============================================
Nota
- Toate cele trei tablite in ansamblu contin un ansamblu eterogen de semne care nu apartin toate (in intregime) niciunui sistem de scriere.
- scrierea cea mai apropiata de semnele noastre este proto-scrierea sumeriana, adica din faza pre-cuneiforma.
(Faptul ca in mare cam toate semnele se regasesc in forma apropiata de acele semne se datoreaza probabil si faptului ca acele semne sumeriene au stat la baza/originea multor alte scrieri ?);
Altfel numai cca. jumatate din semne sant identice cu cele sumeriene proto-cuneiforme.
- Nu pot cum sa-mi explic cum cineva stapanea atentie, doar ca forma atat de multe semne dintr-o arie care posibil depaseste aria Egeeana si merge posibil pana in Anatolia si Levant (Ex.Siria,Palestina) ,nefiind sigur ca le stia si semnificatia/interpretarea adica echivalentul semantic ori fonemic)
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- * The Position of the Tărtăria Tablets within the Southeast … – JstorSee also S. Hood, “The Tartaria Tablets,” Scientific American. 230.5 (May 1968) …. from the upper strata, most likely connected with the Baden-. Kostalac presence on …
- The Tartaria Tablets: a Chronological Issue | Antiquity | Cambridge Coreby E Neustupný – “In this article Dr Evžzen Neustupný, of the Archaeological Institute of the Czechoslovak Academy of Sciences, emphasizes the problematical nature of the find. Vlassa had already shown that some layers of the Tartaria tell were mixed—and discusses the chronological issues involved. The attention of readers is also drawn to the note by Dr D. Berciu in his Romania (London, 1967, 161), and to Dr Quitta’s comments (antiquity, 1967, 266).”
- https://www.academia.edu/…/Chapter_3_Existence_of_an_archaic_script_in_Southeas…Chapter 3 “Existence of an archaic script in Southeastern Europe: A … In a subsequent paper he dated the artifacts around 2600–2400 BC (Vlassa 1970: 30).
- ****
О КВАЗИШУМЕРСКИХ ТАБЛИЧКАХ ТЭРТЭРИИ ВАЙМАН А.А. Археологические вести. Спб, 1994. Вып. 3. Содержание. – ИИМК РАН http://www.archeo.ru › … › Археологические вести › Contents of issues “Two other tablets (figs.2,3) carry signs, many of which, according to Vlassa, are either identical with, or very similar to, those inscribed on the tablets from Uruk IV (early Proto-Sumerian script). The sensational find has gained a wide publicity. The most significant paper that has appeared so far is that by А.Falkenstein who has basically supported Vlassa’s conclusions. Falkenstein has compared the Tàrtâria tablets with those from layer III in Uruk and Jemdet-nasr (late proto-Sumerian script) using a number of criteria, such as clay, format, stylus, structure of the text, signs. He has proved beyond doubt that the script of the Tàrtâria tablets had been directly influenced by the proto-Sumerian script. “ - *****Untitled arheologie.ulbsibiu.ro/publicatii/ats/ats8/merlini.pdf The Tărtăria tablets as problematic archaeological artifacts ….. “the date of Uruk-Warka IV and Jemdet Nasr… seems lately to be the general … 1974/5: 27) and more precisely between 2900 and 2800 BC (Makkay 1973: 1).
Acta Terrae Septemcastrensis https://books.google.ro/books?id=q-pjwVI1Vz0C For a number of scholars the dating of the tablet to, a late period was … history and the Tartaria tablets as Cotofeni finds (G.I. Georgiev and V.I. Georgiev 1969).
******The Lost Civilizations of the Stone Age https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=0684862700 Richard Rudgley – But the string-holes on two of the Tartaria tablets appear to be a feature without … that the tablets represented a garbled and ‘senseless’ mimicry of Near Eastern ...
of the Tărtăria tablets – Dacia. Revue d’archéologie et d’histoire ancienne http://www.daciajournal.ro/pdf/dacia2016/18.pdf Thoughts about a “reconsideration” of the Tărtăria tablets . …… an object as faithfully similar as possible to the Mesopotamian model which he wanted to imitate,.
the tartaria tablets – jstor https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/24926226.pdf by MSF Hood –SUMERIAN WRITING of the period around 3000 B.C. covers a clay tablet found at Jemdet. NasI’ in Mesopotamia. … on tablets found at Tartaria in Romania (see illustration on opposite page). ….. prehendingimitation of more civilized peoples‘ …
Attention, the folowing article is referring to Vinca-Turdas culture; the tablets are much newer ! M. Masson. Interaction of cultures and cultural integration http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/annotations-of-issues/arheologicheskie-vesti.-spb-1994.-vyp.-3.-annotacii
- “An appreciable shift occurred in the early agricultural period, when societies which had attained similar levels of cultural and intellectual development displayed considerable receptivity to integrational processes. Yet here as well the “rejection” is evident. If the decoding of the famous tablets from the early agricultural site of Tartaria, Romania, proposed by A. A. Weiman, one of the world’s most authoritative experts in Proto-Sumerian texts (see this issue), is correct, a highly peculiar picture emerges. In the depth of the early agricultural Balkan area with its remarkable achievements in the artistic and intellectual domains a stable complex is found which is related to the temple structures of the Sumerian civilization. No matter whether the kulturtrager from Uruk had actually built their temple somewhere in the vicinity or whether we have before us a unique case of import having no pragmatic value, it is absolutely clear that these hallmarks of urban civilization had in no way been integrated into the system of early agricultural communities, which, in my opinion, had achieved the initial stage of the early complex society. Numerous and diverse signs found on the artefacts from the early agricultural Balkan sites are doubtless related to some symbolic and magic system, but do not represent a system of writing, which is a phenomenon different, in quality. So the Proto-Sumerian prototype did not in any way affect the local society, which was probably content with the available systems of storage and transmission of information (probably the oral and the artistic ones).”
- TARTARIA AND THE SACRED TABLETS.pdf | Pottery | Archaeology https://www.scribd.com/document/…/TARTARIA-AND-THE-SACRED-TABLETS-pdf
.Charvát not only accepts Near Eastern influence into Transylvania but also tries to ….
The tablets of Tǎrtǎria. An enigma ? A reconsideration and further …
by S PALIGA
… between the Orient and southeast Europe or Transylvania in prehistory. … influx of Near Eastern elements into the Aegean around 3000 B.C. (Charvát 1975).
****** Minoan Sumerian | Giannhs Kenanidhs – Academia.edu http://www.academia.edu/11423494/Minoan_Sumerian
(PDF) A Comparative Linguistic Study about the Sumerian Influence on the Creation of the Aegean Scripts. … https://www.researchgate.net/…/273885539_A_Comparative_Linguistic_Study_about_t…Additional Palaeographic Evidence for the Relationship of the Aegean Scripts to the Sumerian Pictography
Additional Palaeographic Evidence for the Relationship of the Aegean Scripts to the Sumerian Pictography Evangelos Papakitsos Ioannis Kenanidis https://www.researchgate.net/…/279940914_Additional_Palaeographic_Evidence_for_th…
Sumer | Definition, Cities, Rulers, & Facts | Britannica.com
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